Как бы забытый день |
Как бы забытый день |
Tarik_K |
17 ноября 2010 01:42
Сообщение #1
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Новичок
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В свое время на русском языке вышла книжица популярного адвентистского оратора-евангелиста Марка Финли «Почти забытый день». Книжица эта пересказывает традиционные убеждения ревнителей адвентистской старины, для которых основная ценность субботы заключается в возможности использования ее в качестве аргумента антикатолической риторики. В этой книжице есть одна глава, которая стала особенно популярной у адвентистского народа — «Гл.4 Свидетельства веков». Естественно, адвентисты сразу же начали копировать этот текст на всяких форумах и очень удивлялись, когда их поднимали на смех. Эти «свидетельства» никуда не годились. Здесь обсуждается статья: Как бы забытый день |
Глас Вопиющего |
21 ноября 2010 22:33
Сообщение #2
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Активный участник
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Верно, было дело. Я сам обжегся. С якобы цитатой Евсевия про духовное семя Авраама, которое убежало в Пеллу, где соблюдало субботу. Вот часть моей переписки с помощником М.Финли: Dear Howard. I have an orthodox acquaintance whom I sent by e-mail ALMOST FORGOTTEN DAY in Russian. He checked the authenticity of some quotations. When he did not found the above mentioned one he began suspect Adventists of distortion & falsification of facts. He doesn't dispute the well-known fact of flight of Christian community from Jerusalem to Pella but he calls in question the fact of observing the 7th day Sabbath by them. I tried to find this quotation in Internet but I failed. Everything I managed to find was the same quotation on various SDA sites. (obviously, taken from Pastor Finley's book). Before I wrote my request to Pastor Finley I had sent a similar request to Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi. But unfortunately, he doesn't even know about this quotation (as it follows from his message). He referred me to his book FROM SABBATH TO SUNDAY as well. But I have an access only to four of the eleven chapters, furthermore in English. Until now Dr. Bacchiocchi is keeping silence. Besides, at present I need to find this specific quotation - where it was taken from. I think it is point of honour for Pastor Finley to explain where a mistake was made. It never crossed my mind that Mark Finley could think out the quotation. Most likely, it was unintentional fault. But, to explain it to my friend, WE OUGHT TO FIND OUT WHERE IT (the quotation) WAS TAKEN FROM! Ответ: Dear Brother ***** It is possible that Pastor Finley did not get this quotation from the original source, but from a secondary source. After all, the original work of the Ecclesiastical History by Eusebius, written in the 3rd or 4th century may not have survived the centuries. What we have today is a translation of who knows how many translations or copies. From Bacchiocchi's book, FROM SABBATH TO SUNDAY, a footnote indicates that it was translated by Kirsopp Lake in 1949. I would think that copies would be rather rare. It would be interesting to know where your orthodox acquaintance was able to refer to a copy. Did he actually read it from the original source? Or is he taking someone else's word for the findings? I wish you could read Bacchiocchi's well documented chapter on the Jerusalem church after AD 70. It is well foot-noted by ancient sources. He cites a "sect" called Nazarenes (described by Epiphanius, a contemporary of Eusebius) who, he writes, "do not differ in any essential thing from them (i.e. Jews), since they practice the custom and doctrines prescribed by he Jewish law, except that they believe in Christ. They believe in the resurrection of the dead and that the universe was created by God. They preach that God is one and that Jesus Christ is his Son. They are very learned in the Hebrew language. They read the law. . . Therefore they differ both from the Jews and from the Christians; from the former, because they believe in Christ; from the true Christians because they fulfill till now Jewish rites as the circumcision, the Sabbath and others." -- Adversus heresies 29, 7, PG 41, 402. Then Bacchiocchi comments: "This picture of the Nazarenes matches very well that of the Jerusalem Church we have reconstructed earlier. The possibility exists therefore that the Nazarenes represent the survival of both the ethnic and theological legacy of primitive Jewish Christianity. The fact that they retained Sabbath-keeping as one of their distinguishing marks shows persuasively that this was the original day of worship of the Jerusalem Church and that no change from Sabbath to Sunday occurred among the Palestinian Jewish Christians after the destruction of the city." (Jerusalem in 70 A.D.) He showed earlier that the Nazarenes was one of the sects that inhabited Pella. Well, this does not answer your need for verification of Eusebius' quotation, but it does help to corroborate the quotation, providing similar information from a source close to Eusebius. Wishing you many blessings as you serve the dear Lord in your part of the world. Howard Welklin IT IS WRITTEN |
Administrator |
23 ноября 2010 15:58
Сообщение #3
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Активный участник
Репутация: -- Группа: Администраторы Сообщений: 150 Регистрация: 9.02.2009 ICQ:-- |
Глас Вопиющего, It is possible that Pastor Finley did not get this quotation from the original source, but from a secondary source. After all, the original work of the Ecclesiastical History by Eusebius, written in the 3rd or 4th century may not have survived the centuries. Замечательное объяснение! Пастор Финли написал правильную цитату. Это все современные издания Евсевия неверные - они были искажены переписчиками и переводчиками. -------------------- По всем вопросам пишите в личку. |
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